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68 Comments
Victor Franca
6/14/2012 09:12:36 am
I’ve just started with the summer reading book “One Flew over the Cuckoo’s Nest” by Ken Kesey, I’m on the first part and it already caught my attention and several questions came into my mind instantly, such as: “Why is the narrator in this mental hospital?”, “How come nobody realized that he was deaf?”( 10). I’m not sure if the narrator is actually crazy or too smart. One quote called my attention, which was the following: “They don’t bother not to talking out loud their hate secrets when I’m nearby because they think I’m deaf and dumb. Everybody thinks so. I’m cagey enough to fool them that much.” This thought doesn’t seem to be from a person who should be in a mental hospital.
Ms. B.
6/28/2012 06:49:40 am
Victor,
Daniel Pinho
6/17/2012 12:02:01 pm
[ I Read until page 102 ]
Daniel Pinho
6/17/2012 07:25:29 pm
...Adding to the first post...
Ms. B.
6/28/2012 06:43:24 am
In response to Daniel's comment:
Ms. B.
6/28/2012 06:29:55 am
Hi Daniel et al.,
Daniel Pinho
6/28/2012 06:46:44 pm
Clarifying the Combine:
Daniel Pinho
6/24/2012 09:36:11 pm
[ Read the whole book, comments about part two to the end ]
Nevo Mantel
7/19/2012 05:08:06 am
My first impression of Ken Kesey's novel was that the narrator or Chief was actually chosen on purpose to narrate the story, since most of the readers including me would identify theirselves with him. The first thing that made me see my self in Chief's place was making up a way to live so that no one would bother him, most of the people I know hold inside them a great intelligence which they are afraid to show or they want to stay "safe", exactly like Chief. The second thing that made me see why Bromden was the right one to narrate the story, was that he was the only sane person in that place, and the only one that would be understanded by the readers. But while reading I started asking myself, How did a sane person like Bromden got into a mental hospital? According to the quote, "Here's the Chief. The soo-pah Chief, fellas. Ol' Chief Broom. Here you go, Chief Broom..." (Kesey 9) Everyone got fooled by Bromden even the black boys which would take care of them, but why would he get in the mental hospital if he was actually sane? That is a question that I hope to answer in the end of the novel.
Nilo Lisboa
7/19/2012 06:09:10 pm
Hey everyone, I have read several pages of the book already and would really like to point out how unique Chief Bromden is. We all know he is observant, but apparently that is why he is the perfect narrator, he pretends to be deaf, he cannot do anything apart from observe. No one else knows that, therefore, he can find out secrets without even trying that hard. I would also point out his constant connection to machines when he speaks about someone’s actions. I wonder “How crazy is he really?” Is he as crazy as Big Nurse believes he is, or does he think he is smarter than her, making not only the reader, but also everyone in the hospital think the same? One of the most interesting moments I have seen in the book so far is when Bromden describes the way Big Nurse operates the hospital: “I see her sit in the center of this web of wires like a watchful robot, tend her network with mechanical insect skill, know every second which wire runs where and just what current to send up to get the results she wants.” (Kesey 30). This is when Bromden’s insanity and his interest in machinery become one. Is he hallucinating or is he simply making a metaphor to how Big Nurse works, is he hallucinating? It could be one, or the other, or both. This is what makes Bromden unique, the reader can never be completely confident of what he is doing or describing. I wonder if anyone else agrees with me on this?
Ms. B.
7/22/2012 04:48:57 am
Great observations here Nilo! I especially appreciate your choice of quote here and encourage everyone to take a closer look at such images of machinery and robotics in the novel. How does the repetition of this imagery function as an extended metaphor? How might such an extended metaphor be appropriate on both a literal and figurative level in the story?
Julia Souza
7/24/2012 02:24:58 am
A PROGRAMMED WORLD
Ms. B.
7/26/2012 01:30:15 am
Great comparison. That scene from Modern Times is particularly pertinent.
Nevo Mantel
7/19/2012 08:16:21 pm
As seen in the start of the book there is no actual action just Bromden talking about the whole mental hospital in details, showing he is really good at observing. After reading this introduction, "My name's McMurphy and I'll bet you two dollars here and now that you can't tell me how many spots are in that pinochle hand you're holding, don't look. Two dollars." I realized that the climax has come, and that McMurphy would be the one to change the way the story is going. I got connected to McMurphy with his competitive way, I saw myself in his place, since when I want to show, that I know something, I bet and then say what I know, for example, "I bet fifty reais with you that I am right, and that Ms.B is the best." (Nevo) By realizing the gambling issues McMurphy has, I kept reading, since it was getting interesting and what I found out is that Mr. Murphy has a good heart, by trying to make the insane patients a little bit sane. Who had never bet about something he really knew? Most of the readers got a little connected to Mr. McMurphy could've been with his good heart or with his gambling issues or even with both. With what did you identify yourselves? and why?
Ms. B.
7/22/2012 05:05:26 am
Great questions here Nevo. I'm curious to hear who you all identify with in this novel. I myself tend towards Chief Bromden. I don't know that I'd have the courage to stage the style of coup d'etat that McMurphy pilots, though of course I admire him for it.
Julia Souza
7/20/2012 05:53:25 am
DEFYING THE STATUS QUO
Ms. B.
7/22/2012 05:29:25 am
Julia, I applaud your insights. For everyone, Julia proposes the notion that "the mental institution the novel is set in, is treated as a microscopic view of society at the time." Do you agree with her interpretation? Is the novel merely a "microscopic view of society" in the sixties? To what extent does the Combine function as a timeless symbol of society in general? How does the retrospective lens of reading this book in the year 2012 impact our interpretation(s)?
Julia Souza
7/21/2012 04:36:39 am
A SPOONFUL OF LAUGHTER HELPS THE MEDICINE GO DOWN
Thais Oliveira
7/21/2012 06:45:52 am
Truth, It’s Only A Matter Of Perception.
Ms. B.
7/24/2012 10:02:14 pm
Thais! You are a whole book ahead of us hahaha!! The Things They Carried by Tim O'Brien is the next book we'll read as soon as we've finished One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. I'm thrilled to read that you've already made the thematic connection!!! Fabulous work. Did you read The Things They Carried while you were abroad? I'll be anxious to hear about your experience...
Nevo Mantel
7/22/2012 08:32:24 pm
So my last reaction to the middle and the end of the book was that I was right about McMurphy being the one that will bring the climax to the novel. Did anyone think he would be such an important character in the novel? And repeating my question of the other entry did anyone identified themselves with him? After reading the book I realized it is resumed by a saying I used to here from my parents when I was younger, which was, "Tell me who are your friends and I'll say who you are." Meaning that the people you walk with, build up who you end up being, for example after a time in the mental hospital with his insane friends he turned out to make insane moves and making him insane after the time he spent with them. With this saying we can also show how McMurphy affected the insane patients by making them stand for what they think. In the quote, "Lady I think you're full of so much bullshit." (Kesey 268) Harding is showing what he thinks without any fear even tearing up the paper where the nurse wrote that McMurphy would come back. Even Chief was inspired by McMurphy and that what led him to the point of using his strength to run away. To conlude I recommend everyone to read this book in its entirety since it is inspiring and shows how anyone could help you grow in life.
Gaëlle Pfister
7/25/2012 10:00:06 am
“SANITY IS MADNESS PUT TO GOOD USES” – George Santayana
Ms. B.
7/26/2012 01:42:42 am
Excellent analysis Gaelle. I´d love to bring it back to the George Santayana quote you open your analysis with, "SANITY IS MADNESS PUT TO GOOD USES."
Andrea
7/27/2012 09:31:59 pm
Very good insights Gaelle! Wouldn't you agree that the fact that Bromden pretends to be deaf is a mixture of both reasons you stated? Chief is a tall and strong Native American, but his appearance doesn't have anything to do with his personality. As Harding said, Bromden is “a six-foot-eight sweeping machine, scared of its own shadow.” Having family problems since a kid and always being ignored by everyone made him pretend to be deaf to protect him from pain. There are two very important quotes that show the indignation and reasons that may have led him to pretend all of those years. First, “They don't bother not talking out loud about their hate secrets when I am nearby because they think I am deaf and dumb. Everybody thinks so.” He is referring to all of the staff and the people from the ward in this quote; couldn't this be a reason he came up with after pretending to be deaf? He probably didn't know that his was useful until he had the talk with McMurphy about what he could do with all of the information. Furthermore, this type of observations show that Bromden is each time more and more sane.
One flew east, one flew west, one flew over the cuckoo's nest
7/26/2012 01:46:04 am
One question that came into my mind after reading the novel was: what is the relationship between the title and the novel? My first reaction was to analyze the key word of the sentence “one flew over the cuckoo's nest”, - the word cuckoo. Generally, when someone uses the expression “cuckoo”it has something to do with the word crazy and it has a negative connotation. Such usage of word would make sense since the novel takes place in a mental hospital, and there is a big dilemma whether some characters, such as Bromden and McMurphy, were false diagnosed as sane or insane. Further thinking and rereading some quotes from the book I encountered a page that I had completely ignored since I began to read the book: the epigraph. Such stated “...one flew east, one flew west, one flew over the cuckoos nest.” It was a mere children's rhyme that made me look deeper into the meaning of the title. The rhyme is about three birds and each one flew in one direction. These birds can connect with the characters of the book since each one ended up in a different path. For example, Charles Cheswick, who died drowned, and William Bibbit who committed suicide.
One flew east, one flew west, one flew over the cuckoo's nest
7/26/2012 02:06:54 am
**By: Andrea
Andrea
7/27/2012 01:36:51 am
Is killing always bad?
Ms. B.
7/27/2012 05:52:32 am
Andrea, I have to commend both of these posts. First of all, thank you for taking the initiative to research the epigraph, which is linked directly to the title. Can you elaborate on what you mean by "McMurphy was the one who flew over the cuckoos nest and the chief was the one that plucked out"? Try to provide explicit evidence to explain this interpretation. Anyone else have any thoughts on the title and epigraph?
Alê Silveira
7/28/2012 07:03:53 am
Here's a reply to a reply, replyception.
Alê Silveira
7/28/2012 07:13:02 am
Just some clarification on the quotes mentioned in the first reply to the reply.
Nilo Lisboa
7/27/2012 11:47:39 pm
Order = Power
Nilo Lisboa
7/28/2012 12:29:52 am
Rebellion
Ms. B.
7/29/2012 12:31:23 am
This is a very apt critique of McMurphy Nilo, and I commend you for discerning his underlying motives. So let's talk motives for a moment. Andrea mentioned that McMurphy and Bromden's characters change inversely: as one's strength and drive collapse, the other's is revived. In terms of McMurphy, how do his motives for this so-called "revolution" shift over the course of the novel? Is there a moment in the narrative where we can clearly identify a change in McMurphy's behavior and hence motivation? Where is the climax in this book? Think about it...this may show up on a quiz in the near future...
Gaëlle Pfister
7/29/2012 12:16:13 pm
-We all make up a giant line of sheep, blinded from everything but the one in front, and all end up at the bottom of the same cliff-
Ms. B.
7/31/2012 08:05:58 am
Fascinating comparison Gaelle! You've definitely zoomed out into the grander scheme of things for us, which was a necessary step at this point our virtual discussion. Excellent questions in the penultimate paragraph, which I'd be extraordinarily curious to hear everyone's responses to.
Alê Silveira
8/2/2012 07:49:20 am
Law and Order AP Lit Edition
Alê Silveira
7/28/2012 06:32:01 am
THE UNBEARABLE LIGHTNESS OF BEING
Ms. B.
7/28/2012 11:58:45 pm
Ale- I like that you begin with a disclaimer that you proceed to render totally obsolete ☺ You do not appear to have forgotten the basics of literary analysis at all! Nice connections here, and yes, it is clear that the ward is ruled by a system of social stratification that keeps the patients docile in their fear. Notice how the Big Nurse uses fear as a means of maintaining authoritarian rule. What is this reminiscent of?
Victor Franca
7/29/2012 11:23:58 am
Hello my classmates and lovely teacher Ms. B, how are you?
Ms. B.
7/31/2012 08:11:31 am
Hi Victor, can you try and be more specific to give us some context? Specific examples and/or quotes would strengthen your ideas here.
Liz Costa
7/30/2012 07:09:52 am
CHIEF BROMDEN
Ms. B.
7/31/2012 09:05:36 am
This was wonderfully articulate, Liz! Your analysis shares several notions with epistemological empiricism, the theory that human behavior is the by-product experience.
Alana Cavalcanti
8/1/2012 10:45:25 am
I fully agree with what Liz stated about Chief Bromden regarding his possible craziness. Even though the narrator is Chief Bromden, the first impression we had from him was the same that the other character had, of a dumb and crazy person, which is supported by the quote previously presented by Liz on page 18 starts to support this idea. However while the plot is developed, the reader starts to understand that all of the hallucinations start to make sense and have a deeper meaning and that the whole idea of pretending to be deaf was an extremely smart strategy. Due to the fact that he pretended to be deaf, Chief Bromden though out the majority of the novel is a silent observer, which made him able to listen to meetings and observe more than people that are actively involved in it.
Ms. B.
8/3/2012 04:12:43 am
Alana´s post gets at the same kind of essential questions Liz´s did. She asks, Who had the greater impact in this: society or Chief Bromden himself?" To what extent does society shape us and to what extent do we shapes ourselves? Should we perceive Chief Bromden as if he were always sane, or does any of his behavior betray the slightest hints of madness?
Liz Costa
7/30/2012 08:17:55 am
THE FOG MACHINE
Ms. B.
8/3/2012 04:19:03 am
Absolutely. Great points Liz. I encourage you all to think about how Kesey uses symbols like the fog in combination with breaks in the structure of the text to represent such features of Bromden´s psyche. Check out the textual fragmentation on pages 112-116 for example. How does such a stylistic technique reinforce Liz´s interpretation?
Tiago Fonseca
8/1/2012 06:53:14 am
The Origin of the Fog
Tiago Fonseca
8/1/2012 07:24:02 am
it is missing citation so here it is:
Ms. B.
8/3/2012 04:24:01 am
Good points Tiago. The hallucinations may in fact have a more literal cause in the story, but don´t let that detract from the significance of their symbolism.
Marina Oliveira
8/1/2012 10:55:26 am
Response to Gaelle's Post:
Gaëlle Pfister
8/3/2012 10:46:42 am
Reply to Marina:
Thais Oliveira
8/2/2012 07:09:34 am
Doughty Mr.
Ms. B.
8/3/2012 04:31:33 am
Wow! That last sentence could almost be a thesis statement for an essay. Thank you for taking historical context into account.
Liz Costa
8/2/2012 08:18:27 am
CHILL PILL
Ms. B.
8/3/2012 04:35:54 am
For sure! Thank you for posting these comments in response to class discussion. Interestingly enough, in the other class, this discussion veered into an attempt to identify more specific criteria for diagnosing someone as mentally insane. We discussed biology, brain chemistry, and Freud in an attempt to clarify the definition of "craziness." Unfortunately, as you might predict, there was quite a bit of discord over the topic.
Thais Oliveira
8/2/2012 08:19:05 am
Go BIG or Go Home
Ms. B.
8/3/2012 04:52:02 am
Good question, but do you think Kesey meant to end the novel with such a negative outlook?
Tiago Fonseca
8/2/2012 11:14:56 am
Asylum and Society
Alana Cavalcanti
8/2/2012 05:19:09 pm
SOCIETY AND INDIVIDUAL
Alana Cavalcanti
8/2/2012 05:10:12 pm
CHOICE?
Leonardo
8/2/2012 08:15:44 pm
“Nobody complains about all the fog. I know why now: as bad as it is, you can slip back in it and feel safe. That’s what McMurphy can’t understand, us wanting to be safe” (Kessey, 114). At this point of the book, Chief Brodman implies one of the reasons why the patients are still in the ward. As previously mentioned in the book, most of the patients actually chose to be in the ward, and this is due to their necessity of being safe. By staying in it, they are kept in their comfort zone given that, as The Big Nurse says, “they were unable to adjust to society” and there is no interaction with the outside world. At the same time, McMurphy try to make up their minds, aiming to take them out of this situation and live a normal life. In this part of the book however, the narrator -as well as all the other patients- hadn’t still realized that confronting their problems with real-life experiences rather than therapies, results on an extraordinary progress on their treatment. His hallucination and the fact that Chief Bromden feels safe in it, can be therefore related to the ward as a whole, considering that it is used as a tool to comfort the situation of the patients.
Leonardo
8/2/2012 08:16:16 pm
One of the most intriguing questions in the book is certainly Chief Bromden’s supposed deafness, which is only clarified in the middle of the book. The reason why he was claimed deaf is more complex than we can imagine: “I remembered one thing: it wasn’t me that started acting deaf; it was people that started acting like I was too dumb to hear or see anything at all” (Kessey, 178). As we can see, it was the result of a trauma, that begun in his village, going on to the army and finally to the ward. If one considers his personality, the fact that people would refuse to listen to him because of his mental illness made him agree with being “invisible.” As he previously mentioned, this happened since high school, and he came to the conclusion that he would never be listened. This is not a self-steam problem, but being aware of who he represented to other people, and accepting it. This is clear when he mentioned his life in the army: “People first took to acting like I couldn’t hear or talk. In the army anybody with more stripes acted that way toward me. That was the way they figured you were supposed to act around someone looked like I did” (Kessey, 178). Even so, our hero comes and makes him –along with all the others- aware of his problems, which enabled him to open his mind and live with them more naturally.
Leonardo
8/2/2012 08:16:42 pm
McMurphy’s image has extreme importance related to what he represented to the ward. “He is not gonna let them twist him and manufacture him. And later, hiding in the latrine from the black boys, I’d take a look at my own self in the mirror and wonder how it was possible that anybody could manage such an enormous thing as being who he was” (Kessey, 140). As soon as he arrived, his roughness intimidated the patients, soon begun to dominate the ward, for example, when he rose above Harding’s control, as he said, “bull goose loony.” With the power in his hands, he was able to persuade them to do what he wanted, which by the end of the book is proved to be beneficial. Even though with time, the patients realized they could deal with him, his first impression was important to gain authority to put in practice his “therapy.” Not only during his arrival, but McMurphy had to maintain his position given that he was seen as an example of courage to all the patients. With that, he was much more proactive than any other patients in the ward, who were timid and fearful. More than what he was in fact, because of his considerable responsibility as a reference to the patients, he tried to maintain his power throughout all book, avoiding any failure that could make him inferior to The Combine.
d
8/3/2012 07:20:34 am
d
Gaby Goldenstein
8/4/2012 08:02:23 am
Victor and Liz were discussing about who is the smartest of all and what defines that. For me, McMurphy is with no doubt the smartest of all. He had an objective and was able to achieve it in the end of the novel, even if this meant his destruction. McMurphy is a true hero and reminded me of people like Martin Luther King Jr., Joan of Arc, Gandhi and any Christian martyr.
Gaby Goldenstein
8/5/2012 01:09:05 am
There was a scene that really called my attention and I consider it my favorite. It was the moment that McMurphy showed the other patients they had power, they were capable of being respected and could even cause fear. This was the time when McMurphy exaggerated the conditions of the patients to the attendant in the gas station and consequently intimidated him.
Tiago Fonseca
8/5/2012 06:32:33 am
Why so serious?
Gaby Goldenstein
8/5/2012 09:01:34 am
Connecting - One Flew Over the Cuckoo`s Nest vs. Much Madness is divinest Sense Leave a Reply. |